This podcast isn’t personal advice. If you’re not sure what’s right for you, seek advice. Tax rules can change and benefits depend on personal circumstances.
This podcast isn’t personal advice. If you’re not sure what’s right for you, seek advice. Investments rise and fall in value, so investors could make a loss. Tax rules can change and any benefits depend on your personal circumstances.
Full podcast episode transcript
Susannah Streeter: Hello and welcome to Switch Your Money On with me, Susannah Streeter – Head of Money and Markets.
Sarah Coles: And me, Sarah Coles – Head of Personal Finance.
Susannah Streeter: We’ve ben living and breathing Budget rumours for months.
Sarah Coles: It’s been dominating the news – and, for our team, it’s been a hectic time making sure we’re across every twist and turn.
Susannah Streeter: Last week, I dashed from London to Leeds – and then back to Bristol for various different broadcasters.
Sarah Coles: Yeah – you started really early in the gym for BBC, didn’t you?
Susannah Streeter: I did – and Ben, the anchor, was also interviewing local businesses – lots to talk about the ‘heavy lifting’ the Chancellor had to do.
They almost put me on a spinning bike to do the interview, but I just ended up next to a treadmill – pretty apt, given all the running around I’ve been doing.
Sarah Coles: There was no travel for me, but I was glued to my seat for hours on the day – my fitness app was furious with me.
It wasn’t all my fault though. Rachel Reeves was on her feet for a mammoth 76 minutes to deliver the first Budget from a Labour Chancellor in 14 years.
Susannah Streeter: As usual, there were a few surprises – we’ll come to those in a moment. But so much had been trailed in advance – there wasn’t a big financial reaction, initially.
Sarah Coles: Unlike for us, where the reaction was as intense as ever!
Susannah Streeter: Yeah – I had to nip away to do an interview for Sky News to explain to viewers the economic ramifications of the Government’s plans.
Sarah Coles: And they stood you on a box for that broadcast, didn’t they?!
Susannah Streeter: Yes – there was around a two-foot difference between me and the presenter – at least it beats sitting on the Yellow Pages – which I was once forced to do in a TV studio many moons ago.
It was quite a relief to be back in our studio here at HL HQ – on this comfy new sofa – with not a box in sight!
Sarah Coles: Yes – and, from this sofa, we’ll be exploring where people stand after the Budget.
And, to do that, our Head of Government Affairs – Anne Fairweather – is joining us. She has a real insight into what’s behind the decisions being made.
It’s great to have you with us. It was a Budget of tax rises – why was that?
Anne Fairweather: Well, there was a combination of factors.
From a political point of view, the Budget after an election is often one where taxes rise, allowing more scope for giveaways later on the parliament before the next election.
But then, there were also constraints the Chancellor put on herself. Labour had pledged not to raise income tax, National Insurance, and VAT in the election. Together, these taxes make up 63% of the overall tax take.
There was a desire on top of that to not be seen as an austerity Chancellor – so Reeves wanted to raise the spending levels.
Famously, there’s this disputed ££22bn black hole in the finances. The Treasury claimed that in July and that there was money missing from the previous Chancellor’s Budget. The Office of Budget Responsibility – having reviewed the figures – set this gap at £9.5bn in March.
In totality, this Budget represents a £70bn lift in spending – £36bn coming from additional taxes and £32bn from borrowing.
Susannah Streeter: And there were so many rumours swirling before this Budget about what this could mean for investors. What’s your take on it?
Anne Fairweather: This Budget was always gonna be a big one – and, in the months running into it, I think we had every possible rumour going. The upshot was less change than was expected, but there were some key changes affecting investors.
For someone who has peaked investments outside of tax wrappers, there was a bit of a blow – capital gains tax on stocks and shares will rise.
The rate specifically on stocks and shares for basic rate taxpayers moved from 10% to 18% - and, for higher and additional rate taxpayers, it moves from 20% to 24%.
Sarah Coles: Yes – it could have been worse, because there were all sorts of rumours doing the rounds before the Budget, suggesting rates could rise even further – but it’s scant consolation for anyone hit with a bigger tax bill.
There’s also a danger this is gonna drive investor behaviour, and people will focus on tax considerations rather than the investments that make the most sense for their circumstances. They might also hoard the assets – possibly until their death.
Susannah Streeter: In terms of investment taxes, there’s also the inheritance tax changes affecting AIM – the small cap market – aren’t there?
Anne Fairweather: Yes – business property relief has been a valuable tax break for AIM investors over a number of years. Those who hold qualifying investments for two years could see them fall out of their estate for inheritance tax purposes.
That’s now changed – this relief has now been cut in half, so people could pay inheritance tax of up to 20%. It may mean that, for some investors, it’s worth reassessing the role of these investments.
Sarah Coles: On the subject of inheritance tax, the nil rate bands were frozen until 2030. While only 6% of UK estates will pay inheritance tax this year, that figure is on the rise – and it’s only gonna keep increasing now that inheritance tax nil rate bands have been frozen for an extra two years.
Susannah Streeter: There were also major changes to inheritance tax and pensions. So, for more details, let’s bring in Helen Morrissey – our Head of Retirement Analysis – who’s been looking through all of these changes.
So, Helen, what’s your take?
Helen Morrissey: Thanks, Susannah. This Budget was a biggie from a pensions’ perspective – including the fact that defined contribution pensions will be brought into the inheritance tax regime from 2027.
This could have a real impact on people’s retirement planning – if they were holding off spending their pension in order to pass it onto their loved ones.
Susannah Streeter: It is an enormous change – why d’you think it was made?
Helen Morrissey: Currently, the taxation regime around pension death benefits is very generous. Pensions are not usually subject to inheritance tax – and, if death occurs before the age of 75, then the pension can be passed on tax-free. After age 75, income tax is applied at the beneficiary’s marginal rate.
This sets it apart from other savings vehicles such as ISAS – and it meant that many people use their pensions as an inheritance tax planning vehicle rather than to supply an income in retirement. The change could mean more people will look to use a pension to generate a retirement income.
Sarah Coles: That is indeed a massive change – how d’you think it’s gonna affect people?
Helen Morrissey: People are going to need to plan pretty carefully. We could see people making more use of the various gifting allowances on offer to mitigate the tax charge – giving away gifts to loved ones while they’re still alive. This could really help young family members get on the housing ladder.
We could also see more people taking out insurance policies to cover the value of any inheritance tax charge. It won’t directly affect any tax due on the pension, but will cover the cost of the overall tax bill, so their families aren’t left struggling.
Married couples will still benefit from being able to pass assets between them, inheritance tax free, but cohabitees could find that they need to do inheritance tax planning that they didn’t need to do before. Speaking to a financial advisor can be really beneficial in making sure that you’re making the most of your options.
Finally, we could see people who opted to go into income drawdown because of the ability to pass on this money free of inheritance tax – may now also consider looking at getting a guaranteed income through an annuity instead.
This is a good time to mention that, if you are over 50, the Government’s free and impartial Pension Wise service can help you if needed – or you should ask for advice if you’re unsure about your retirement options.
Susannah Streeter: It was a big change, but we had been expecting more, hadn’t we?
Helen Morrissey: Yes – the Budget was important for what wasn’t announced as well as what was.
The big thing that people were concerned about in the run-up was that Government would look to make changes to the amount of tax-free cash that people can take from their pension. We are hugely relieved that this didn’t happen, but the rumours have left a lot of people with a real financial headache.
Sarah Coles: That doesn’t sound good – so what’s the problem?
Helen Morrissey: These kinds of rumours always fly about before a Budget – but, this time round, they really did run red hot and this caused people real concern, with many looking to take the cash now in a bid to avoid a government tax grab. Taking it out of a pension with no plan as to what to do with it can cause all kinds of problems.
You’ve taken it from a really tax-efficient environment and potentially put it somewhere where it could be exposed to taxes such as capital gains and dividend tax. It could also be put in a savings account paying a poor rate of interest when it could have been benefitting from investment returns. It’s a knee-jerk reaction that many could come to regret.
Susannah Streeter: That does sound like a real worry. What options are there for people who’ve taken their tax-free cash and now regret it?
Helen Morrissey: It’s worth finding out where you stand first. You can check with your provider to see whether, in theory, it would be possible to reverse the decision – so they could have a cooling-off period, for instance.
If someone has taken their tax-free cash and is worried about attracting tax, it’s important not to forget things like stocks and shares ISAs, where you can get investment growth and income can be taken tax-free, which might suit some people.
I do want to sound a word of caution for people who intend to reinvest the money back into their SIPP – because there is a chance that you could fall foul of recycling rules that could clobber you with a penalty.
Sarah Coles: Can you explain a little bit more about these recycling rules?
Helen Morrissey: As you know, pension contributions receive tax relief at the member’s marginal rate – it’s a great incentive to save. What HMRC don’t want you to do is to take your tax-free cash – that you’ve already received tax relief on – and reinvest it to get a second lot of tax relief. There’s a series of rules around this and it’s a good idea to speak to an advisor if you were looking at reinvesting some of the cash back into your SIPP – just to make sure that you don’t fall foul of these rules.
Susannah Streeter: It does seem as though some people are going to have a lot to think about. Before you go, we can’t have you on without at least mentioning the State Pension! Was there anything on that?
Helen Morrissey: There absolutely was. The Chancellor confirmed that the State Pension will rise by 4.1% from April next year. That takes the value of a full new State Pension up to £11,975 per year. The full, old basic State Pension will go up to £9,175 per year.
Susannah Streeter: So, it’s not all doom and gloom. And, Anne – d’you see a few more glimpses of good news in this Budget?
Anne Fairweather: Well, we did get some certainty. There were a lot of suggestions about changes to ISAs in the run into this Budget – but, instead, we got confirmation of no change until 2030. So, the ISA allowance stays fixed at £20,000, the LISA at £4,000, and the JISA at £9,000.
Susannah Streeter: And this certainly does provide certainty over allowances, doesn’t it?
Anne Fairweather: That’s right – it’s very welcome to have this kind of stability, as it’s a cornerstone of people’s financial planning. Rumours before the announcement led to investors to fear the worst, so they’ll be breathing a sigh of relief now.
The downside of this certainty is that, over time, the allowance will continue to drop in real terms – and it becomes less valuable. The £20,000 allowance was introduced back in 2017 and it hasn’t moved since. Given the level of inflation we’ve seen since then, that’s really eaten into the generosity of that allowance.
The other big change to ISAs was one that was ruled out – the UK ISA.
Susannah Streeter: And that’s not the end of the good news though – because speculation that income tax thresholds would be frozen for another year or two came to nothing.
Anne Fairweather: Yes – but we’re not gonna see those thresholds move until 2028/29. While we wade through the last years of the freeze, it’s going to keep taking its toll – and not just on your pay. When you start paying the higher rate of tax, your personal savings limit shrinks from £1,000 to £500. It’s disappeared all together for additional rate taxpayers. You will also pay a higher rate of capital gains tax when you cross into paying the higher rate of income tax – and your dividend tax rate rises as well as you cross into each income band. So, there will still be issues for investors.
Sarah Coles: While I like to think that everything in life is about personal finances, that’s not all that was in the Budget. There was a bit more there, wasn’t there?
Anne Fairweather: Yes – personal finances aren’t where the big revenue raises are. The Treasury says it will raise £25.7bn from putting up the employer rate of National insurance. That’s quite a whack – it comes from a 1.2% rise on the employers’ National Insurance contributions – boosting them up to 15% - and, in addition, they’re lowering the point where this is paid to £5,000. Both of those changes will come in from April 2025.
That’s a blow for employers – but it was softened for the very smallest businesses, with a rise in the employment allowance – which essentially allows those who employ a few employees to be free of employer NICs. That threshold moved from £5,000 up to £10.5k – meaning that employers with four staff on living wage will not pay any National Insurance contributions at all.
Susannah Streeter: It’s interesting as well – because the Office for Budget Responsibility has modelled the impact of this change in among the overall picture for the economy – and it’s not that pretty for you or I. The OBR is expecting earnings growth to fall and profits reduce.
Interestingly, the OBR also doubts that the big £25.7bn will be raised. They’re going for a more conservative estimate of £16.1bn after taking account of indirect effects such as lost revenue from lower wage rises.
The upshot of all of this is the prediction of just a 0.5% rise in living standards each year – not that much of a shift from where we are now, but it is still some progress.
Anne Fairweather: Yes – it looks like we’ll be seeing the repercussions of this Budget for the rest of this parliament.
Susannah Streeter: Thank you very much, Anne.
Of course, you mentioned, Sarah, that the Budget isn’t just about personal finance, but I know you won’t want to leave this topic without briefly talking about property.
Sarah Coles: Yes – we’re actually enjoying a stamp duty holiday at the moment – and silence on the issues means it’s highly likely to end in March next year.
The thresholds at which people start paying the property purchase tax will revert to the level set before temporary changes were made in 2022 – and that’s gonna hit a lot of first-time buyers. At the moment, the tax threshold is £425,000 for first-time buyers, but that’s going to revert to £300,000. It’ll also affect home movers, who will see the threshold rise from £125,000 to £250,000.
There’s also a hike in the stamp duty surcharge on second properties – including investment properties and second homes – and that rises from 3% to 5%.
It means property is still one of the least tax-efficient ways to invest. Unlike investors in stocks and shares, property investors can’t protect themselves from this tax by using ISAs. They can’t realise capital gains gradually either – which means they can’t take advantage of their annual allowances. It means they might well wonder whether all this tax means their sums no longer add up.
Susannah Streeter: Looking more broadly at investment, it was interesting watching the effect of Rachel Reeves’ words on financial markets.
She appeared to perform the tricky balancing act of increasing borrowing to fund growth projects without rattling investors who buy government debt too much.
As she spoke, bond markets appeared to steady further – but then, after the Budget – as the dust settled and investors dug deeper into the forecast from the Office for Budget Responsibility about growth and inflation – those guilt yields started to rise again.
The Budget is expected to push inflation up by 0.4% by 2026 from the level it otherwise would have been – which may mean the Bank of England won’t cut rates quite so quickly. Although the Office for Budge Responsibility is expecting them to head downwards and reach 3.5% by the end of next year.
The FTSE 100 is more internationally-focused and, on the day, the Budget didn’t budget out of the ‘Red!’ However, the domestically-focused FTSE 250 crept further into the ‘Green,’ with consumer discretionary stocks climbing higher as the Budget was angled to put more money in payslips – although, some of those gains were erased later on the day of the Budget.
Sarah Coles: So, which stocks should be on watch lists ahead following the Chancellor’s Budget? Let’s get the view of Matt Britzman – Senior Equity Analyst here at Hargreaves Lansdown.
So, Matt – let’s start with Health.
Matt Britzman: One name I’m watching is Primary Health Properties – or PHP. PHP is a Real Estate Investment Trust – or REIT. It’s focused on owning and managing purpose-built doctor’s surgeries across the UK and Ireland. It’s in a position to benefit directly from the government’s increased focus on primary care, especially with this Budget’s emphasis on tackling appointment backlogs.
Susannah Streeter: Interesting! So, with the new healthcare spending, how will this translate for PHP?
Matt Britzman: The extra healthcare funding aims to cut down those appointment delays. PHP’s properties are designed specifically for primary health – and, with nearly 90% of its rental income funded by the NHS – or its Irish equivalent – it’s anchored to some very stable tenants. As more funding flows directly into primary care, demand for PHP’s facilities should strengthen.
Sarah Coles: What about the challenges PHP has faced recently?
Matt Britzman: Yes. So, higher interest rates have affected the portfolio value – and also led to fewer property transactions – but PHP has been strategic. Rather than focusing on new development, it’s been capitalising on rent increases across the existing properties – and that’s helped to offset some of those increased costs.
Susannah Streeter: And there’s potential upside here if interest rates ease further?
Matt Britzman: Exactly. So, a lower rate environment would be a win for PHP – both lowering the cost of capital and opening up possibilities for new projects.
The risks are if interest rates stay higher for longer – or if there’s a material pullback in primary care spend at some point down the line – so both are worth keeping tabs on.
Sarah Coles: Thanks, Matt. Now, let’s move onto Greggs – which I know is a name you’ve been looking at closely. What’s your take here?
Matt Britzman: Greggs has featured on our ‘Five shares to watch’ list this year – so it’s name we follow closely.
With recent Budget focusing on putting more money in payslips, Greggs has a lower-cost staple – is well-positioned to stay resilient. It’s a brand known for its value offering, which tends to hold up well even when consumer budgets are tight.
Susannah Streeter: So, how has Greggs been performing lately?
Matt Britzman: Third-quarter results didn’t bring too many surprises. Like-for-like sales growth is slowing, but that was expected, given some strong comparable periods last year. There was a slight positive on the cost side – though not enough to change the full-year profit guidance. Over the past year or so, management has done a commendable job setting quite a high bar.
The number of Greggs shops is set to rise to 3,000 in the coming years – and there’s been a lot of focus on diversifying locations beyond just the traditional high street locations. We’re particularly supportive of their push in the travel hubs like train stations and airports. These are great spots to capture foot traffic from commuters and travellers – which adds more stability to their customer base.
Greggs has also been expanding its franchise shop model, which reduces the operational burden. Plus, it’s been expanding delivery services through Just Eat and Uber Eats – and opening later to tap into the food-to-go market.
Sarah Coles: What’s the outlook like for Greggs?
Matt Britzman: The balance sheet is in good shape – with cash being used to fund the growth initiatives. Overall, we continue to be impressed by what Greggs is doing, but there is quite a high valuation – which does require consistent delivery – and, of course, there’s no guarantees.
Susannah Streeter: Thanks, Matt. Who d’you have as your final company today?
Matt Britzman: I’ll end with a housebuilder, Persimmon – which has had an impressive start to the year – revenue growth driven by a health mix of both higher volumes and prices. Persimmon is particularly well-placed to benefit from some of the £5bn pledged to deliver housing targets.
Sarah Coles: How does it stack up against its peers?
Matt Britzman: Advantage lies in its pricing – its homes are priced over 20% below the new-build national average, which means they’re more affordable – particularly for first-time buyers. The recent government emphasis on supporting first-time buyers aligns well with Persimmon’s portfolio.
Susannah Streeter: What about the challenges it’s facing?
Matt Britzman: Recent operating profits were flat – which, compared to the double-digit declines seen by peers, was actually quite a strong result. The higher revenues were offset by build-cost inflation and increased use of incentives to help close those deals. However, a lot of that impact does seem to be behind us.
The broader housing market remains uncertain, but there’s still a significant pent-up demand for homes – and, with more interest rate cuts on the horizon, that should help improve affordability.
Persimmon’s been cautious about new land investments recently – and, with land prices coming down, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them start acquiring more plots to support future growth.
Sarah Coles: What about its financial position?
Matt Britzman: The balance sheet is in good shape, with improving cash flows and a healthy net cash position. It’s still trading at a premium compared to peers – which reflects the underlying strengths, but adds extra pressure to deliver.
Sarah Coles: Thanks, Matt – there’s plenty of interesting companies to keep any eye on.
Of course, the Budget also affects fund managers – so this feels like a good time to bring in Emma Wall – Head of Platform Investments at HL – who’s been speaking to Henry Lowson from Royal London Asset Management.
Emma Wall: Hi, Henry.
So, markets are basking in the aftermath of the Budget – let’s talk quickly about what has happened.
Henry Lowson: I think there was a huge amount of uncertainty and speculation ahead of this Budget. It’s the first Labour fiscal event after 15 years in opposition, so there was a lot of event horizon risk before.
On the day, there was a certain amount of relief from the equity market – certainly, from a smaller midcap perspective, the reaction was very positive. A large part of that is down to some of the announcements regarding things like CGT – Capital Gains Tax – and business property relief, which applies to AIM shares.
Emma Wall: I understand why the AIM market had a relief rally because it was expected that the tax implications would be worse than they actually were – but let’s dig into that small caps reaction. That’s quite interesting because some of the policies that were announced will adversely impact smaller businesses – the rise in minimum wage and the National Insurance Employer Contributions.
How do you see this impacting the smaller companies’ market – as a professional smaller companies’ investor yourself?
Henry Lowson: The increase in the national living wage of 6.7% to £12.21 – and much higher than that for 18-21-year-olds up 16.3% - so considerable cost increases for many companies and businesses to have to absorb. In particular, Retail, Leisure, Hospitality and Food Retail really stand out as businesses that typically have more people-based cost bases – and, typically, are slightly lower margin. These are businesses that I think will be affected.
Emma Wall: There was some business relief for Retail and Leisure of up to 40%, but some of the reporting from business owners, themselves, are saying this will adversely impact them. Has it changed the investment case – from your point of view – for any of the stocks that you have in the portfolio – or under coverage in your investment horizon?
Henry Lowson: I think it’s very stock-specific – or stock-dependent. There were those companies who I think are well-versed in being able to incorporate or pass these costs on to the consumer. We saw, in the period of COVID, when there was significant price inflation – or cost inflation – around freight and energy costs – that some of the food producers – like Cranswick – were able to exhibit significant pricing power, but there’s no doubt that this potentially could present a risk in terms of rising prices for the consumer, down the road.
Emma Wall: Retail and Leisure is a sector that has had considerable headwinds over the last five years – first, with the pandemic – and so many of their businesses just not being able to have any revenue stream because they were closed completely during lockdowns. And then, the significant inflation pressures that we’ve all faced over the last couple of years, but being particularly focused on Food and Energy – on which those sectors are particularly reliant.
Is this the case of, you’ve stress-tested your business in the last couple of years – and this is another stress-test... that, actually, you’re probably more resilient to face – is that what you’re saying?
Henry Lowson: I think many companies were expecting a rise in the National Living Wage of between 5% and 7%. For 18-21-year-olds, that increase of 16.3% might be more than some might have anticipated – and bear in mind that these are sectors where labour is, typically, 15% to 20% of costs. But I think the employer National Insurance contributions changes – that increase to 15% and the reduction in the threshold from £9,100 to £5,000 is perhaps something that businesses weren’t anticipating – and so they will need to build that into their forecasts, going forward.
Emma Wall: What about some of the positive measures in terms of spending? – because the Government indicated that they would be supportive of infrastructure, green energy, and a National Wealth Fund – which we haven’t had many details on, but does speak to investment in the UK.
Are there any businesses that you’re thinking have a more compelling investment case – be that by sector or stock-specific – off the back of the Budget?
Henry Lowson: Certainly, there are businesses that have had a very supportive environment in the last few years – and I think the current Budget continues that. The boost for the Defence budget, for example – £3bn in 2026.
Infrastructure and Construction – another sector which I think will react positively to some of the announcements the Chancellor made around, in particular, the HS2 Euston Tunnel – some of the TransPennine investment – and, of course, Civil and Defence – Nuclear. But I think there was other sectors where the Government didn’t announce something – which has, equally, been taken positively.
There was some speculation before that the banks might have to adhere to another surcharge, for example – and this wasn’t part of her announcement. Fuel duty was frozen – and I think many had it expected that to increase – so that’s a positive for the consumer.
In terms of housebuilders – they had continued support from this Budget. Another £500m going into the Affordable Housing Programme – so more support for social housing. More planning officers to streamline the planning process – and the other point of note is around Oil and Gas. So, the energy profits levy moving up from 35% to 38% - and the removal of the investment allowance – but the retention of the 100% first-year capital allowance.
Emma Wall: Thank you, Henry.
Henry Lowson: Thank you, Emma.
Susannah Streeter: That was Emma Wall speaking to Henry Lowson from Royal London Asset Management. Please bear in mind that these are the views of the fund manager and are not individual stock recommendations.
You’re listening to Switch Your Money on from Hargreaves Lansdown – and, before we go, there is time for a quick fact of the week.
For this, we’ll go to the Budget speech itself, which went on for what felt like forever. There were plenty of tax rises in the announcement, but how many times did she mention the word ‘Tax?’
Was it 26, 39, or 57?
Sarah Coles: It felt like every other word – so I’m gonna go with 57.
Susannah Streeter: You are right. It was an awful lot – way ahead the 9 mentions of ‘Health,’ 8 of
‘Education,’ and 11 of ‘Pensions.’
Sarah Coles: I think we’re all ready for a nice long time of nobody talking about tax.
Susannah Streeter: Yes!
That’s all from us for this time – but, before we go, we do need to remind you that this was recorded on 5th November 2024 and all information was correct at the time of recording.
Sarah Coles: Nothing in this podcast is personal advice – you should seek advice if you’re not sure what’s right for you. Investments and any income they produce can rise and fall in value, so you could get back less than you invest, and past performance is not a guide to the future. Tax rules can change and benefits depend on individual circumstances.
Susannah Streeter: Yes – this is not advice or a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any investment. No view is given on the present or future value or price of any investment, and investors should form their own view on any proposed investment.
Sarah Coles: And this hasn’t been prepared in accordance with legal requirements designed to promote the independence of investment research and is considered a marketing communication.
Susannah Streeter: Non-independent research is not subject to FCA rules prohibiting dealing ahead of research. However, HL has put controls in place (including dealing restrictions, physical and information barriers) to manage potential conflicts of interest presented by such dealing.
Sarah Coles: You can see our full non-independent research disclosure on our website for more information.
So, all that’s left is for us to thank our guests: Anne, Helen, Matt, Henry, Emma, and our producer, Elizabeth Hotson.
Susannah Streeter: Thank you very much for listening. We’ll be back again soon – bye!